Talk:Shades
How these spells work Exactly how do these spells work? Do you conjure non-damaging versions of these spells or their DCs differ according to the spell level of shades? Do the answers apply to shadow conjuration and greater shadow conjuration as well? -- Harleyquin October 30, 2005 *They work exactly like the regular spells except they're a different spell level. In most cases, it's not a very useful spell. -- Austicke 22:14, 1 Dec 2005 (PST) :*They use illusion for spell focus as well, so if you have illusion and no evocation, it can be useful to get better dcs. -- 80.67.64.10 07:31, 2 Dec 2005 (PST) ::*Good point, 80.67.64.10. That would be good info to add to the articles. -- Austicke 09:31, 2 Dec 2005 (PST) ::*Would then this spell bypass evocation immunities? DaBear 09:54, 2 Dec 2005 (PST) :::*yes. also bypasses evocation immunity. I added a note for all this info. -- Jjjhhhlll 12:55, 2 Dec 2005 (PST) ::::*That's good info. Shouldn't it be added to Shadow Conjuration too? -- Austicke 19:51, 2 Dec 2005 (PST) :::::*ok. I did Shadow Conjuration too. the spells there are no save, so no note on the dc, but the immunity stuff still applies. -- Jjjhhhlll 09:21, 3 Dec 2005 (PST) ::::::*Thank you, Jjjhhhlll. -- Austicke 10:18, 3 Dec 2005 (PST) :::*Jjjhhhlll is wrong. Illusion spell focus will not increase the DC of evocation sub spells from the shades radial and a shades cone of cold for example will not bypass evocation immunity. GhostNWN 07:40, 12 January 2006 (PST) ::::*Have you tested it Ghost? --Countess Terra 07:49, 12 January 2006 (PST) :::::*Of course :) GhostNWN 08:40, 12 January 2006 (PST) ::::* eek. that explains a lot. I was wondering why certain monsters were immune to illusion spells AND evocation spells. Of course I was working with the false assumption about shades and such. -- Jjjhhhlll 12:55, 20 January 2006 (PST) Usefulness I don't think that you need to know the normal version of a spell to cast the shadow-varient of the spell, this could make the spell usuful for sourcerers, as a 4 for 1 deal, you can save your valuable known spells, at a price of casing them at 1 level higher. -- November 27, 2006 Shadow variant definition The note about spell level may still be taken to imply that the spells cast as Shades spells might be considered by the game to be level 6 spells. That would make this a worthwhile spell, but my (limited) observations have not shown that to be the case. For example, does a Shades-cast Fireball still act as a level 3 evocation spell in all important game respects except how it is memorized/known? In other words: : Is it considered to be fire damage for purposes of damage reduction/resistance? : Is it a level 3 spell for purposes of spell immunity, e.g. Minor Globe of Invulnerability and the like? : Is it a level 3 spell for purposes of saving throw DC? If the answer is 'yes' for those questions, I suggest re-wording the note to something along the lines of "Shadow variant" has no real meaning in Neverwinter Nights; the spells cast via shades are identical to their "normal" versions, except that the sixth-level spell slot allows any of the sub-spells to be cast. When cast, they are treated as they would be if cast as normal spells of their original school and spell level. MrZork 15:32, November 19, 2009 (UTC) * The damage from a shades-fireball not only is considered fire damage for the purposes of damage resistance, but it is fire damage. The innate level of a shades-fireball is identical to the innate level of a fireball (3), but according to the note in talk:globe of invulnerability, it is the spell level, not innate level, that matters against a minor globe of invulnerability. The DC... hmmm, I think that goes on spell level, not innate level, but guess I could check that somewhat quickly. Let's see... with a casting ability modifier of +4 and no spell focus in any school, I got a DC of 20. That means the spell level is 6, so it's the spell level, not innate level that matters. :In summary, that makes the answers yes, no, and no. However, I don't see how a "yes" answer to the first question indicates a problem with the current text -- since the shades version is identical to the "normal" version, the damage type is implied to be the same, no? --The Krit 16:50, November 19, 2009 (UTC) *The subspells from shadow spell variants also penetrate that spell immunity - specific. Thus for example web cast from greater shadow conjuration normally affect spiders. 23:01, November 28, 2012 (UTC)